FRI., DECEMBER 07, 2007
2007 Innovators Q&A: Gogol Bordello's Eugene Hutz
by Richard Gehr
Eugene Hütz is the towering, bare-chested, outlawishly mustached ringmaster behind gypsy-(cyber)punk combo Gogol Bordello, whose Super Taranta! is easily the year's most intelligently anarchic rock album. Forced to exit his Ukrainian homeland when Chernobyl redlined, Hütz eventually landed in Vermont before moving to New York in 1997, when he formed Gogol Bordello. The group has subsequently released Voi-La Intruder, Multi Kontra Culti vs. Irony, the East Infection EP and Gypsy Punks: Underdog World Strike.
Gogol Bordello's impure pastiche appropriates in order to dominate. To watch Hütz onstage is to observe a shamanic ritual of pop magic and ye olde will to power. Potent politics meet a well-shaken brew of punk, dub, rai, flamenco and Ukrainian gypsy traditionalism. Rock's latest wanderlust king has mystical communications to attend to, and you'd best clear the way. As he sings in "Harem in Tuscany": "the boots of decent life/ They are just too small for me!"
You've said in interviews that rock is dead, at least in the West. Care to elaborate?
It's so obvious. The original shamanist impulse of rock 'n' roll has been completely drained by commercialized imitations, so other forms of music came along and swept it away, starting with rap and hip-hop culture. The interesting thing is that as rock died in the West, the impulse bewitched a lot of other people in Eastern Europe, South America, Asia and so on. Now we who come from ass-backwards parts of the world carry the fire. It mutated in our hands, but it still basically serves the same purpose it did during the '50s, '60s and '70s.
Tell me about the "new rebel intelligence and the "intersection of all dimensions" you sing about in "Tribal Connection."
"Tribal Connection" is very autobiographical for Gogol Bordello. It's about a bunch of people from different places who end up as one tribe, one family. There are so many streams of information, backgrounds and aspirations in our band; it's hard to describe it as anything other than an intersection of all dimensions. Our band includes poetic drive, a disciplined methodical side, a lot of interest in science and spirituality and sweeping outbreaks of plain hedonism. One member is into history and anthropology, and another one is into aliens. Rebel intelligence is our method of beating all the political discomforts, coming out on top and still living the magical lives we want to live.
Do you feel as though you've succeeded in that?
I certainly did, especially considering where I came from. It was like making it from the bottom twice. First in just being able to leave the Ukraine, then again after going back into the ghetto over here.
What were your first impressions upon arriving in Vermont as a teenage punk rocker?
I'd seen woods and fields before. I wasn't blown away.
Music is both mobile and universally necessary, and the traveling gypsy nation is historically superb at it.
You sing and speak of gypsies and Romani fairly interchangeably. Is the difference between the terms merely a matter of semantics?
It would be much more accurate and respectable to address us as Romani, and some hardcore Romani get pissed off about the term gypsy. The majority doesn't really mind because it takes too much fucking energy to explain it, y'know? It's all part of the jam at this point. Call it gypsy music, y'know? What the fuck can you do? People who really want to know will find out. And if anybody still doesn't know, gypsy comes from the mistaken belief that gypsies originated in Egypt. The first Roma people actually came from Rajasthan, India.
It's almost as though there are two kinds of gypsies — one for themselves and one for outsiders.
There are definitely two kinds of gypsy music: the kind of gypsies that play for non-gypsy audiences and the kind that play for their community. The music they play for non-gypsy audiences is generally just music appropriated from the hosting country. So Hungarian gypsies play Hungarian music in a gypsy way, and Romanian gypsies play Romanian music in a gypsy way: faster and harder and more excitingly. Because in addition to the desire to convince everybody that we're the motherfucking best, we're driven by sheer survival circumstances: You have to outplay everyone in the area so you're the only one invited to play weddings, funerals and so on. Music is both mobile and universally necessary, and the traveling gypsy nation is historically superb at it because we've been cultivating our talent for generations.
And I assume Gogol Bordello reflects this?
Surely. Try to find me another live band that kicks our ass. Try to find me a band that evokes more fire. That's our way of saying, "We are the fucking best!" and of pretty much old-schooling everybody else out of the business.
What are some of the different kinds of Romani music?
It's a very diverse thing. You not only need to know a lot of different gypsy musics to understand it, you need to know the people themselves. Only then you will start to see the thread that unites all these incredibly different kinds of music. Balkan gypsy music and Russian gypsy music are like night and day. Gogol Bordello are considered part of the gypsy tradition at this point, but at the same time we're trying to blow the dust off the whole fucking thing, by completely revitalizing it and, some people say, bastardizing it. I am at peace with all of those terms because I know from the incredible number or Romani friends I've met throughout the world, and back in the Ukraine, that they want to see us raise the Romani flag. Even the term gypsy punk came out of conversations with gypsy girls who used to come to our shows. The band was my idea, but it developed through a dialogue with the Romani community.
What gypsy movies and music should people check out once they've been seduced by Gogol Bordello?
You asked the right guy, man. Latcho Drom (Safe Journey) by Tony Gatlif is the bible of gypsy movies. All Tony Gatlif's films are superb. Gadjo Dilo (The Crazy Stranger) has fantastic Romanian-gypsy music. Moldavian director Emil' Lotianu's The Gypsy Camp Rolls into the Sky is a famous and beautiful film with a lot of brilliant Siberian Roma music. Aleksandar Petrovic's The Feather Collectors [AKA I Even Met Happy Gypsies], made in Yugoslavia during the late sixties, was a great prototype for a lot of Emir Kusturica films. "Djelem Djelem," the Romani national anthem, comes from that film. Let's not forget When the Road Bends: Tales of a Gypsy Caravan by Jasmine Dellal, especially because two or three scenes were shot during one of my parties at [Manhattan's] Bulgarian Bar. And of course there are Emir Kusturica's films, some of which are more authentic than others. His Black Cat, White Cat is just kitsch and doesn't do anything for me. I prefer Dom Za Vesanje (Time of the Gypsies).
And gypsy music?
Guitarist Sasha Kolpakov is from the Servo tribe, the Russian and Ukrainian tribe I'm from, and his Rodava Tut is probably my favorite gypsy recording. Any Taraf de Haidouks album featuring fiddler Nicolai Neaucescu, who passed away last year, will be very strong. Fanfare Ciocarlia and the Kocani Orkestar are also among the main kickers. These are all good places to be floored immediately.
Gogol Bordello's impure pastiche appropriates in order to dominate. To watch Hütz onstage is to observe a shamanic ritual of pop magic and ye olde will to power. Potent politics meet a well-shaken brew of punk, dub, rai, flamenco and Ukrainian gypsy traditionalism. Rock's latest wanderlust king has mystical communications to attend to, and you'd best clear the way. As he sings in "Harem in Tuscany": "the boots of decent life/ They are just too small for me!"
You've said in interviews that rock is dead, at least in the West. Care to elaborate?
It's so obvious. The original shamanist impulse of rock 'n' roll has been completely drained by commercialized imitations, so other forms of music came along and swept it away, starting with rap and hip-hop culture. The interesting thing is that as rock died in the West, the impulse bewitched a lot of other people in Eastern Europe, South America, Asia and so on. Now we who come from ass-backwards parts of the world carry the fire. It mutated in our hands, but it still basically serves the same purpose it did during the '50s, '60s and '70s.
Tell me about the "new rebel intelligence and the "intersection of all dimensions" you sing about in "Tribal Connection."
"Tribal Connection" is very autobiographical for Gogol Bordello. It's about a bunch of people from different places who end up as one tribe, one family. There are so many streams of information, backgrounds and aspirations in our band; it's hard to describe it as anything other than an intersection of all dimensions. Our band includes poetic drive, a disciplined methodical side, a lot of interest in science and spirituality and sweeping outbreaks of plain hedonism. One member is into history and anthropology, and another one is into aliens. Rebel intelligence is our method of beating all the political discomforts, coming out on top and still living the magical lives we want to live.
Do you feel as though you've succeeded in that?
I certainly did, especially considering where I came from. It was like making it from the bottom twice. First in just being able to leave the Ukraine, then again after going back into the ghetto over here.
What were your first impressions upon arriving in Vermont as a teenage punk rocker?
I'd seen woods and fields before. I wasn't blown away.
You sing and speak of gypsies and Romani fairly interchangeably. Is the difference between the terms merely a matter of semantics?
It would be much more accurate and respectable to address us as Romani, and some hardcore Romani get pissed off about the term gypsy. The majority doesn't really mind because it takes too much fucking energy to explain it, y'know? It's all part of the jam at this point. Call it gypsy music, y'know? What the fuck can you do? People who really want to know will find out. And if anybody still doesn't know, gypsy comes from the mistaken belief that gypsies originated in Egypt. The first Roma people actually came from Rajasthan, India.
It's almost as though there are two kinds of gypsies — one for themselves and one for outsiders.
There are definitely two kinds of gypsy music: the kind of gypsies that play for non-gypsy audiences and the kind that play for their community. The music they play for non-gypsy audiences is generally just music appropriated from the hosting country. So Hungarian gypsies play Hungarian music in a gypsy way, and Romanian gypsies play Romanian music in a gypsy way: faster and harder and more excitingly. Because in addition to the desire to convince everybody that we're the motherfucking best, we're driven by sheer survival circumstances: You have to outplay everyone in the area so you're the only one invited to play weddings, funerals and so on. Music is both mobile and universally necessary, and the traveling gypsy nation is historically superb at it because we've been cultivating our talent for generations.
And I assume Gogol Bordello reflects this?
Surely. Try to find me another live band that kicks our ass. Try to find me a band that evokes more fire. That's our way of saying, "We are the fucking best!" and of pretty much old-schooling everybody else out of the business.
What are some of the different kinds of Romani music?
It's a very diverse thing. You not only need to know a lot of different gypsy musics to understand it, you need to know the people themselves. Only then you will start to see the thread that unites all these incredibly different kinds of music. Balkan gypsy music and Russian gypsy music are like night and day. Gogol Bordello are considered part of the gypsy tradition at this point, but at the same time we're trying to blow the dust off the whole fucking thing, by completely revitalizing it and, some people say, bastardizing it. I am at peace with all of those terms because I know from the incredible number or Romani friends I've met throughout the world, and back in the Ukraine, that they want to see us raise the Romani flag. Even the term gypsy punk came out of conversations with gypsy girls who used to come to our shows. The band was my idea, but it developed through a dialogue with the Romani community.
What gypsy movies and music should people check out once they've been seduced by Gogol Bordello?
You asked the right guy, man. Latcho Drom (Safe Journey) by Tony Gatlif is the bible of gypsy movies. All Tony Gatlif's films are superb. Gadjo Dilo (The Crazy Stranger) has fantastic Romanian-gypsy music. Moldavian director Emil' Lotianu's The Gypsy Camp Rolls into the Sky is a famous and beautiful film with a lot of brilliant Siberian Roma music. Aleksandar Petrovic's The Feather Collectors [AKA I Even Met Happy Gypsies], made in Yugoslavia during the late sixties, was a great prototype for a lot of Emir Kusturica films. "Djelem Djelem," the Romani national anthem, comes from that film. Let's not forget When the Road Bends: Tales of a Gypsy Caravan by Jasmine Dellal, especially because two or three scenes were shot during one of my parties at [Manhattan's] Bulgarian Bar. And of course there are Emir Kusturica's films, some of which are more authentic than others. His Black Cat, White Cat is just kitsch and doesn't do anything for me. I prefer Dom Za Vesanje (Time of the Gypsies).
And gypsy music?
Guitarist Sasha Kolpakov is from the Servo tribe, the Russian and Ukrainian tribe I'm from, and his Rodava Tut is probably my favorite gypsy recording. Any Taraf de Haidouks album featuring fiddler Nicolai Neaucescu, who passed away last year, will be very strong. Fanfare Ciocarlia and the Kocani Orkestar are also among the main kickers. These are all good places to be floored immediately.
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